tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post6919067644553666590..comments2024-01-30T04:57:48.673-05:00Comments on Second Mile Sandusky Scandal: Analysis: Is Ohio State another "UVa" (on steroids)?Barry Bozemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03484041114078117845noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-38133584721839802352018-07-24T20:09:58.028-04:002018-07-24T20:09:58.028-04:00I don't know about Hastert, however, you are c...I don't know about Hastert, however, you are correct that mature adults often befriend young boys/teenagers and groom them with gifts and giving them attention. Quite often, the molester will allow the boys to do things their parents forbid, such as drinking alcohol, looking at pornography, and acting more like a contemporary than an adult while in their company. Ray Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-22746190670160042592018-07-24T20:04:14.892-04:002018-07-24T20:04:14.892-04:00Steve,
I believe so, based on the fact that Jerry ...Steve,<br />I believe so, based on the fact that Jerry used wrestling as one of his methods of inappropriately contacting boys. Jerry's father, Arthur, introduced youth wrestling at the Brownson House and likely for the same reason. <br /><br />Think about it...Jerry followed in his father's foot steps. Ray Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-76628768615334606132018-07-24T20:02:09.348-04:002018-07-24T20:02:09.348-04:00Gregory,
We probably crossed paths at 7 Mts. I wa...Gregory,<br />We probably crossed paths at 7 Mts. I was first there in 1973 and Tim Bagshaw was a prominent member of the Staff. I was inducted in the OA in 1976 and Bagshaw was prominent in that organization too. I recall that he organized a camping weekend for just older OA members circa 1977 and a sweat lodge was built next to the lake for it. <br /><br />I recall Tim Bagshaw at one of our OA training events in 1978/1979. He was there acting like a big goofball.<br /><br />So....moving right along. When Bagshaw was arrested in the early 1980s he was a cop in Huntingdon, PA. An acquaintance of mine recalled that he was working in the Children and Youth Services office there and that when they found out you could have knocked everyone over with a feather. <br /><br />I remember Smokey well and I helped Mort remodel the Ranger cabin there when he moved in. Mort also had some "issues." Ray Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-34155288019289791602018-07-17T05:49:37.888-04:002018-07-17T05:49:37.888-04:00With more revelations this looks more like another...With more revelations this looks more like another Michigan State or worse. The latest is a written complaint from a student in the 1990s who alleged the doctor first examined his private parts when he asked about a lump on his chest. The student then claimed the doctor pushed against him, and he could feel the doctor's erection. The student claimed the health center merely took the doctor's word that nothing like that happened. <br /><br />Reports are that the shower room for the wrestlers was a hang out for male voyeurs who sometimes openly masturbated. The head coach admitted he knew and complained to administrators but nothing was done for years. It seemed like it would have been simple to close the shower room to the public when the sports teams had practice. Tim Bertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534135581401662154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-5132725452203088302018-07-14T02:52:00.952-04:002018-07-14T02:52:00.952-04:00Bobby Bagshaw was somewhat of a prankster. We gav...Bobby Bagshaw was somewhat of a prankster. We gave him the monaker "The Bagger" Tim was a total nerd! Everyone knew he was gay, which is why he was mocked by other kids on staff. A slimeball. Nothing remotely similar to JS.<br /><br />A couple years after moving to California, I got a note from one of my friends who was finishing his PhD in environmental studies at PSU. It said, in part, that Smoky had died and Mort took his job, and that Bagger's brother did some bad things with a couple 13 year old scouts. Nobody seemed surprised.Greg Vernonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10566899608592908874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-84771705372508726732018-07-14T02:25:21.707-04:002018-07-14T02:25:21.707-04:00Yes..McQueary learned to associate slapping sounds...Yes..McQueary learned to associate slapping sounds with sex. This is a conditioned response, and nobody ever asked where or how he learned it. A normal jock would associate slapping sounds with towels and wet balls flying in the locker room.Greg Vernonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10566899608592908874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-18998605605576105482018-07-13T11:39:14.964-04:002018-07-13T11:39:14.964-04:00Have any researchers computed numerical correlatio...Have any researchers computed numerical correlations between "acting like a big kid" and being a convicted child sex offender? <br /><br />I would think that child sex offenders who act like mature adults could also successfully groom victims with attention, praise and gifts. <br /><br />Did Denny Hastert act like a big kid when he was a high school wrestling coach sexually abusing his students?Tim Bertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534135581401662154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-25397398540832052712018-07-13T08:24:39.210-04:002018-07-13T08:24:39.210-04:00Ray,
Like you I am retired fed LE. I once...Ray,<br /> Like you I am retired fed LE. I once sat in on a local case where a 16 year old boy was molesting his two year old sister. At interview the 16 yr old apparently thought nothing of it. After wanting to pulverize this kid I thought either he is a true sociopath or this is learned behavior from the parents. Any evidence of learned behavior in Sandusky’s case.Steve Kilpatrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16172119287672636919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-59833346213673268682018-07-12T23:28:15.897-04:002018-07-12T23:28:15.897-04:00Amazing! Tim Bagshaw and his brother were on camp...Amazing! Tim Bagshaw and his brother were on camp staff at 7 Mts. in 1969. I was Nature director. Tim was weird and and was relentlessly teased by other staff. I thought that it was the end of the road for those 2. When I returned in 1970, there was no mention of the Bagshaws. When I hosted a number of Monaken at the national OA conference at the University of Illinois, there were no Bagshaws nor any talk of them.<br /><br />I met Ray McCombie at an OA function when I was completing Brotherhood. Although I spent most of my scouting years at Hidden Valley, I had a lot of sweat and blood invested in 7 Mts. because of all the Alpha Phi Omega work projects we had out there. Love that place!!!<br /><br />Incidentally..Jerry Sandusky did his student teaching at my High School (Cedar Cliff). I never heard any strange stories from my friends who had him. I still remain skeptical.Greg Vernonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10566899608592908874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-54592638022116274102018-07-12T12:45:25.752-04:002018-07-12T12:45:25.752-04:00Ray BleharJuly 12, 2018 at 10:19 AM
You can read m...Ray BleharJuly 12, 2018 at 10:19 AM<br />You can read more about the Bagshaw case here:<br /><br />http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/jerry-sandusky-penn-state-sex-abuse-case-eerily-similar-timothy-bagshaw-boy-scout-case-decades-prior-article-1.978901#<br /><br />You will see similar patterns to Sandusky.<br /><br />I also have first-hand knowledge of this case from being a contemporary of Bagshaw. We were camp counselors and went to Philmont Scout Camp among a contingent of 45 people from Central PA. Bagshaw was the group leader for the kids from the State College/Centre County area. I was with a group from Juniata County, but not its leader. <br /><br />On the train ride to New Mexico, Bagshaw sat at the window and pretended to be shooting prairie dogs. That caused a five year old boy sitting near him to be amused. With the permission of the mother, the boy ended up on his lap. Once there, Bagshaw put his neckerchief around the boys neck. <br /><br />Acting like a big kid is a red flag. <br /><br />Once we got to New Mexico, Bagshaw dressed in short shorts and wore rainbow suspenders (recall Robin Williams in Mork and Mindy). Four other boys dressed in a similar manner. I didn't recognize it for what it was at the time -- no one did.<br /><br />That's how Pillar of the Community offenders operateRay Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-81152610488663390582018-07-12T12:42:13.351-04:002018-07-12T12:42:13.351-04:00Gregory,
Thanks for your comments.
Unfortunately,...Gregory,<br />Thanks for your comments.<br /><br />Unfortunately, most of the things giving you "reasonable doubt" are untrue or easily debunked.<br /><br />First, that there was no physical evidence in the case is false. In 2009, Sandusky was informed by DPW that he could no longer have contact with Aaron Fisher. Sandusky continued to contact Fisher via telephone many times. Phone records are physical evidence. <br /><br />Sandusky also supplied the victims with gifts as part of the grooming and compliance process. Pictures of the gifts were introduced as evidence at the trial.<br /><br />Next, while plying victims with drugs and alcohol is common in many molestation cases, it is not universal by any means. For example, Boy Scout leader Timothy Bagshaw, a serial predator from State College, did not ply with drugs or alcohol as he molested them on camping trips. Sandusky, as you know, was a tea-totaler. Therefore not plying with alcohol (or drugs) would be expected. As such, NONE of the (real) victims accused Sandusky of plying with drugs and alcohol. The phony 1971 victim (friend of Bernie McCue), Spinelli who accused Sandusky of giving his whisky at a sports camp, and one of other civil litigant made an accusation involving alcohol. <br /><br />Next, the absence of pornography of Sandusky's computer is easily explained by the fact that Sandusky didn't use computers. In Dottie's interview with John Zeigler, she stated that Jerry didn't learn to use email until he was under house arrest. Moreover, Jerry's retirement papers were produced on a traditional typewriter (according to document forensics experts). Jerry, in 1999 did not request that his PSU office be equipped with a computer...and not a single email from Jerry has been recovered from PSU's system.<br /><br />So, no reason to find porn on a computer of a man who didn't use computers. Moreover, if Sandusky did use hard copy pornography, he had two years to get rid of it. Sandusky knew he was under investigation in 2009 and the police didn't get a warrant to search his house until June 2011. Under those circumstances, making an argument that the cops didn't find porn is specious at best. I'll also add the there was no search warrant to look into Sandusky's internet service provider (interestingly, the OAG used that power to track down people who chatted about the case -- or criticized Tom Corbett)<br /><br />It is also quite obvious from the evidence that Sandusky used physical activity, like wrestling, to introduce his victims to touching.<br /><br /><br />Contrary to what you believe, there is evidence of Sandusky molesting individuals during his time in Washington PA at the Browson House. In fact, a person from the Washington PA area said that Brownson House was known as the "cornhole capital of Washington County." "Cornhole" is slang for anal sex. And, if you were not aware of this, the Brownson House was quite well known for its youth wrestling program. Jerry's father, Arthur, was inducted into the Washington County Sports Hall of Fame for his contributions to youth wrestling. Interestingly, Jerry (in Most Hated Man in America) did not mention wrestling as one of the activities at Brownson House. Did that just slip his mind?<br /><br />The Sandusky case is unlike McMartin because the prosecutors, in most of the cases, were dealing with adult men (not children) who weren't trying to please them by giving the correct answer. In most cases, the victims were very uncooperative. The exception in the case was Victim 4, who actually sent a proffer to the OAG. For the most part, the rest of the Victims stuck to the substance of their original testimony to the grand jury. <br /><br />It is a fact that Jerry acted like a big kid. So did Timothy Bagshaw. How do you think they got so many kids to warm to them?<br /><br />In closing, the common threads among those who believe Jerry Sandusky is innocent is unfamiliarity with behaviors of child molesters and their victims and applying stereotypes that aren't applicable to the case.Ray Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-63905477428900113992018-07-12T02:14:43.565-04:002018-07-12T02:14:43.565-04:00Interesting discussion. This soap opera did not g...Interesting discussion. This soap opera did not get any play in West Coast papers, so I guess it's just an Ohio thing. <br /><br />You still seem to be convinced that JS abused some of those men, but I am far from reaching that conclusion and have a ton of reasonable doubt. I base my skepticism on several factors: The absence of pornography or drugs/alcohol which is almost the sine quo non of sexual abuse; The total lack of physical evidence; The lack of any evidence that JS exhibited these tendencies at a young age which is almost universal in pedophiles...no...something else is going on here, maybe something we don't understand. As you stated in your article above, when certain things did not happen, you wonder why.<br /><br />What the JS case has in common with McMartin, Fells Acres, and Kelly Michaels is the intensive, suggestive, and probably illegal interrogation techniques used by police and grandstanding, unethical prosecutors. While the JS jurors never heard testimony about being turned into mice, they believed other stories that had more holes than a block of Swiss cheese. While the children in the above cases merely had to please their questioners, Frank Fina, et al, gave them millions of reasons to come up with the "right answer".<br /><br />No..I don't buy the "pillar of the community". model for JS. Too simplistic and does not fit the data. JS didn't fool anybody nor did he try. What you saw was what he was. He was brilliant in some areas, and totally immature in others. He was never observed by anyone acting inappropriately with a child. The only thing that makes logical sense is that he thought he was a 16 year old boy and the kids were his buddies. That also explains the behavior of everyone else.Greg Vernonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10566899608592908874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-31391433345533304662018-07-11T23:56:10.592-04:002018-07-11T23:56:10.592-04:00If Strauss didn't have permission from the wre...If Strauss didn't have permission from the wrestlers to be his research subjects than he was acting unethically and likely illegally. That would probably be even worse than just hanging around the showers to get a thrill. <br /><br />Some of the wrestlers defending Jim Jordan just seem to be making it look worse. A former wrestler, Nick Nutter, is now claiming no wrestler would have told Jordan about the doctor because Jordan was "intimidatingly a goody two-shoes." <br /><br />http://thehill.com/homenews/house/396605-former-osu-wrestler-defends-jordan-against-allegations<br /><br />Yet, Nutter confirmed he was "fondled" by the doctor and that all the wrestlers knew about the doctor, often talked about his "creepy" and "inappropriate" behavior and called him “Dr. Jelly Paws.” <br /><br />Nutter said when he got poison ivy, the doctor invited him to his home, "where the doctor ended up fondling him while he laid naked on the bed."<br /><br />To believe Jordan you have to believe he never saw the naked doctor hanging around the team shower for an hour at a time, never saw him being too hands-on during weigh ins and never overheard any of the wrestlers talking about his inappropriate behavior. <br /><br />It will be interesting to see the report from the law firm OSU hired to investigate.Tim Bertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534135581401662154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-28503049054588911862018-07-11T20:25:45.408-04:002018-07-11T20:25:45.408-04:00Tim - I certainly agree that typically research wo...Tim - I certainly agree that typically research would be conducted as you have described, with the subjects agreeing in advance and seeing the doctor in his office. <br /><br />That said, it cannot be ruled out that some of Strauss's research subjects (i.e., young athletes) were not willing to be examined routinely in his office and Strauss went a different route to conduct it. <br /><br />It would be interesting to speak with some of his colleagues about this. As you quoted earlier, Strauss was known to be "too hands on." It could be that Strauss was simply obsessed with his research. <br /><br />I'll see what it costs to get the death certificate. While it is probably the case that one of the newspapers got the certificate and others are simply repeating what the first wrote, I would like more proof. <br /><br />Recall that after the Patriot News falsely wrote that Jake Corman didn't join the TSM board until 2010, every column from other media that followed repeated the inaccuracy. Ray Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-82572983914596883592018-07-11T15:32:54.867-04:002018-07-11T15:32:54.867-04:00Ray - It's just ludicrous to contend that the ...Ray - It's just ludicrous to contend that the naked doctor was in the shower room to examine the wrestlers' body hair and rashes for a research study. That is not how that type of research would be conducted. <br /><br />For a legitimate research study, the wrestlers would have agreed to be research subjects in advance. Then they would have visited the fully-clothed doctor individually to be examined. It would have at least been unethical, possibly illegal, for the doctor to use the wrestlers as research subjects without their knowledge or permission. <br /><br />I agree that reporters should have verified the suicide by checking with the police, family or viewing the death certificate. If it was suicide, I wouldn't be surprised that the journal he edited would want to spare the family embarrassment. That would explain why they may have lied and said he "died peacefully in his home."Tim Bertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534135581401662154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-59785813526756897132018-07-11T14:54:04.496-04:002018-07-11T14:54:04.496-04:00I think in some ways the OSU case is far worse tha...I think in some ways the OSU case is far worse that either PSU or MSU because the doctor had zero excuse for showering with his patients, the wrestlers. At least Sandusky had a plausible excuse for showering with a boy after they worked out together as part of Second Mile's Friend Fitness program. <br /><br />The Ohio State doctor was not at wrestling practice to work out so he shouldn't have needed a shower. He was there as part of his profession to treat injuries and monitor the health of the wrestlers. It was extremely unprofessional and poor judgement for a doctor to shower with his patients. Even if he needed a shower, he could have waited until the wrestlers had finished or gone to one of the dozens of other shower rooms on the OSU campus. <br /><br />When the OSU head wrestling coach got a complaint, he should have simply insisted the doctor not shower with the wrestlers ever again.<br /><br />The coach said he raised the issue about the showers with the administration, but that complaint was apparently not about the doctor but about the lack of a separate shower area for the wrestling coaches. <br /><br />Actually, Jordan's fellow coaches are all sticking up for him, and themselves. The complaints are all coming from the alleged victims. Tim Bertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534135581401662154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-16282640604269963352018-07-11T08:10:05.886-04:002018-07-11T08:10:05.886-04:00Tim,
Thanks again for your comment.
I note that y...Tim,<br />Thanks again for your comment.<br /><br />I note that your comment omitted "examination of body hair" as one of the ways to check for testosterone levels. <br /><br />As I wrote, Strauss and Lanese were conducting various research at the time (click on the links). While some of the research involved testosterone, other research included rashes developed by wrestlers from wearing various types of wrestling gear. In conducting that research, Strauss and Lanese could have called in wrestlers at various times to check on rashes. Alternatively, could have simply observed wrestlers while they showered. <br /><br />My point is that there are very plausible explanations for Strauss to observe wrestlers while they showered that don't involve sexual deviancy.<br /><br />I'll also add that the wrestler who said Strauss ogled "for no apparent reason" probably had no idea about the research he was conducting. Unless I missed a news report, it seems that media also had no idea about this research.<br /><br />Finally, while it is being widely reported that Strauss committed suicide, I have yet to find any confirmation of it (outside of media reports, that I don't trust)Ray Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-10822504872833211822018-07-11T07:52:02.652-04:002018-07-11T07:52:02.652-04:00Tim,
Thanks for your comments.
I was aware of Hel...Tim,<br />Thanks for your comments.<br /><br />I was aware of Hellickson's comments. However, the fact remains that there are no records anywhere of a formal complaint against Strauss. <br /><br />Hellickson said he also raised the issue about the showers in Larkin Hall to the administration, but so far there is no formal record of that.<br /><br />Jim Jordan is unlucky because we live in a society where almost every allegation is believed by the media (except in the cases of people that they favor) and the subject of the allegations is considered guilty immediately.<br /><br />Jordan is also unlucky that very few of his colleagues have a spine.<br /><br />Ray Bleharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14557326921056183979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-79321259351451287862018-07-11T00:53:32.601-04:002018-07-11T00:53:32.601-04:00I don't see how claims that Dr. Strauss "...I don't see how claims that Dr. Strauss "ogled naked young men, sometimes showering among athletes multiple times a day for no apparent reason or perching himself on a stool to stare" is at all "consistent with the research he and Lanese were conducting at the time."<br /><br />The research would have involved body measurements, blood tests and interviews about their sexual activity during and after the wrestling season. None of those would have required ogling them in the showers.<br /><br />Another thing that needs clarification is Dr. Strauss's manner of death. The 2005 article you included states that he "died peacefully at his home." That is extremely misleading if he did indeed commit suicide as is being reported elsewhere. <br /><br />People will tend to assume that his alleged sexual abuse of male athletes was somehow connected to his alleged suicide. That is obviously not necessarily a valid assumption. Tim Bertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534135581401662154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2260510730184507282.post-34613666570849399872018-07-11T00:24:27.922-04:002018-07-11T00:24:27.922-04:00There were complaints at the time that the doctor ...There were complaints at the time that the doctor made wrestlers "uncomfortable." USA Today reported that the head wrestling coach, Russ Hellickson, admitted he got complaints and "confronted" Doctor Strauss.<br /><br />"In a phone interview with USA TODAY Monday, Hellickson said he told Strauss that some of the athletes were 'uncomfortable' with him showering with them and that the doctor responded that Hellickson also showered with the athletes. I said, 'Not for an hour, Doc,' Hellickson said. ... I said 'When you’re doing weigh-ins, you’re too hands on, Doc,'”<br /><br />https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/10/trump-conservatives-sticking-jordan-over-abuse-allegations-but-others/769402002/<br /><br />It might not have been considered sexual abuse in that day but the doctor's inappropriate behavior/inappropriate touching was definitely known by the head wrestling coach at the time. He apparently never did anything more than tell the doctor to tone it down. The coach should have reported it to his Athletic Director, the way Paterno did. <br /><br />A major factor not present in the PSU and MSU cases is that it involves a powerful Congressman. That makes it not just sports news and crime news but also political news.<br /><br />If Ohio State stands firm, I don't think they have any legal liability because it was too far in the past and the alleged perpetrator is dead. <br /><br />Congressman Jordan is certainly unlucky in his aspirations to become Speaker of the House because a former GOP Speaker, Denny Hastert, admitted to sexual abuse of male minors. Tim Bertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534135581401662154noreply@blogger.com