Sunday, March 30


By Barry Bozeman

Back in September of 2012 we posted two stories that have been two of the most read in the history of this website. Tragic news came to our attention over a week ago that led us to revisit this information and it's effect on the defamation suffered by Penn State. As you read this information we ask two very important questions: Was it proper for John Surma to lead the Board of Trustees to fire Joe Paterno? Was John Surma's action during that meeting influenced by what had happened to his nephew Victor B. Surma? 

For a week we have had multiple independent sources telling us in confidence that Victor Benjamin Surma dIed of a heroin overdose and the Surma family had gone to considerable lengths to keep his death quiet. There was no public notice or obituary - only word of a closed small private memorial service for family and the closest of friends. We have hesitated to publish this information out of sympathy for the family. Finally tonight an obituary for Victor B. Surma appeared in the Pittsburgh Tribune.

Obituary for Victor Benjamin Surma
Victor B. Surma, of Upper St. Clair and New York City, N.Y., passed away earlier this year in Manhattan, N.Y. Born July 20, 1983, he was a son of Dr. Victor J. and Kathy (Keim) Surma;
We found a Facebook statement that Vic died on Jan 26, 2014 written by his mother Kathy Surma on March 28th and we suspect that is why an obituary has finally been published.

Victor Surma, Sr. went on a PSU football message board and posted disparaging remarks about Coach Joe Paterno after his son left the football team.   According to reliable sources, John Surma had been pushing for the ouster of Paterno ever since joining the PSU BOT in 2007 and led the way to orchestrate the firing of Coach Paterno on Nov. 9, 2011. That action caused terrible damage to Penn State and the Paterno legacy and family. We believe there is strong evidence of a direct connection between these events and at the very least John Surma had a conflict of interest that should have excluded him from any part in that decision.

Joe Paterno preached personal responsibility to all of his players and staff. It is not the place of a football coach to control the personal lives of players. Vic Surma the father says Paterno 'destroyed the self-esteem and confidence of young players'. But it was Vic, the father, that decided his son should walk on at Penn State instead of taking a full scholarship at Kent State. Vic the son simply was not equipped to win playing time at a top Division 1 program. Did Vic's failure to succeed given the pressure from his father destroy his self esteem and confidence?  Or was that the fault of Joe Paterno?

John Surma, Vice-chairman of the Trustees took over for Chairman Steve Garban that fateful night in November following Linda Kelly's Presentment press conference. Garban excused himself because he was once a player for Paterno.  It appeared that Surma and Gov Corbett had planned the firing of Joe Paterno well in advance of that emergency meeting. Corbett as the past AG knew what was coming and of Surma's strong dislike for Joe. Railroading the Trustees was easy - Corbett appointees along with the inner circle controlled Board decisions. Those who had any concern over the firing were quickly silenced and told that Corbett as former Attorney General had inside information concerning the extent of involvement by Paterno and PSU administrators. After all, Corbett convened the Grand Jury that wrote the indictments, so his conflict of interest is impossible to overstate. Here, the former Attorney General responsible for building the case against PSU, had become the most powerful member of the Board responsible for protecting the interests of PSU.

We have great sympathy for the family of young Victor B. Surma and it may seem cold or even cruel of us to publish this story even two months following his death  - but it seems quite clear to us that what happened with this young man had a dramatic effect on his father and uncle. As a result, John Surma should never have been a part of the meeting of the board that fired Joe Paterno. We also have sympathy for the family of Joe Paterno and the people of Penn State. So it's up to you to decide what to do with this information and to decide for yourselves if it was proper for us to bring it out in the open so these questions might be answered.  

Steve Garban & John P Surma
THE SURMA VENDETTA explained the exact circumstances of November 9, 2011 when Vice Charirman John Surma took over for Board chairman Steve Garban and orchestrated the firing of Joe Paterno and Graham Spanier on behalf of Gov Tom Corbett. The information we provided has never been in dispute:
We're not going to drink the Kool-Aid," snapped John P. Surma, then the board's vice chairman and the chief executive officer of United States Steel Corp. "This is what we need to do."  
Surma then asked whether any trustee objected to the firing of coach Joe Paterno.             The question was met with silence. Paterno was informed by Surma in a phone call 
Victor Surma #78 the father
THE SURMA VENDETTA PART II  explains WHY John Surma could take this regrettable action that caused irreparable damage to Penn State University and the legacy of Coach Joe Paterno. John Surma's brother Victor Surma, a former PSU football player (picture), had serious personal family issues that had caused a 180 degree shift in the Surma's regard for Joe after 2005.

That change of regard for Joe was meticulously documented in messageboard communications by John Surma's brother Vic,  provided to us by former PSU players. Those messages can be reviewed at the link provided above.

Victor B. Surma
Vic Surma's son and John Surma's nephew, Victor Benjamin Surma walked on at Penn State for Coach Paterno after a Pittsburgh Regional Fabulous 22 career at Upper St. Clair HS near Pittsburgh. He had been offered a scholarship at Kent State but his father interceded and asked Paterno to put Vic on his team at PSU saying:

 "Joe instilled in us how to win. He's a special man, a special person. There's nobody better at taking high school players and making them men."

That surely doesn't sound like a man who would not trust Joe Paterno with his son. Vic the son did not get much playing time during the 3 years he was part of the team but this is not why the Surma's changed their minds so dramatically about Joe Paterno. According to teammates, Vic developed personal problems including a failed drug test and rumors of a sexual orientation that greatly upset his father and uncle. Vic was dismissed from the team and left PSU after his Junior season. He took up a career as a male model in Florida, California, and New York City. Those are the things that turned the Surma's against Joe Paterno.

Records from Allegheny County show that Victor Benjamin Surma was arrested twice in quick succession in May and June of 2012. These arrests came after a relapse from treatment for drug abuse according to sources.

These arrests for possession of controlled substances, speeding, and reckless driving confirm that young Vic had a drug problem sources say he developed during his Penn State career. That begs the question: Did Vic and John Surma hold Joe Paterno responsible for what happened to young Vic? 

There is substantial evidence that they did. We know from sources that John Surma expressed strong opposition to Paterno after 2005 to the surprise of people who knew him. We see Victor Surma's statement above praising Joe for "being a special person" who "makes men" but following his son's dismissal from the Penn State team we find this post online:   
Victor Surma <vsurma8215@> wrote:  The Rat has hurt so many young men; destroyed their self esteem, ruined their confidence, etc.  I feel it is my obligation to expose his fraud to the national media before he checks out. I'm starting with the Pittsburgh Reporter and hope to take his fraud national!!!  I hope you understand.  I was a 3 year letterman – have no axe to grind – just want to set the record straight on the RATS legacy.  Vic S”
This change of heart coming after his son's problems are exposed indicates a strong connection. When Victor Surma the father says Joe (known as "the rat" not to his face) "hurt so many young men; destroyed their self-esteem, ruined their confidence, etc" who else would he be referencing? The stories of Vic's drug problem were supported by arrest records and now we have heard even more disturbing and tragic news. Sources tell us that young Vic Surma has died of an overdose of heroin in New York City in January this year. That clearly confirms the terrible extent of his drug problem.

It appears that Victor B. Surma's attorney did an excellent job representing his client. Two separate DUI Controlled Substance arrests - one on 5/28/2012 (0011575) and the second 21 days later on 6/19/2012 (0011919) were treated as FIRST Offenses with a maximum penalty of 4 days confinement. That seems like a rather spectacular deal for 2 DUI arrests where drugs were found in any State or Commonwealth.

It appears that what drove young Vic to drug use was his father's inability to accept his sexual orientation. Our sources indicate this all came to a crisis when young Vic broke up with an older male partner just prior to leaving the PSU football team. A post by his father in and online forum displayed his prejudice against gay men:  In August of 2010 Victor J. Surma made the following derogatory remark on the online forum of John Steigerwald concerning Joe Paterno. 
victor surma says:August 18, 2010 at 7:07 pm Why mention it? It’s obvious. The backlash would be worse than the Barney Frank Fairy Boat ride
One source who was part of the PSU football team at the time tells us:
One reason for hard feelings may lie in his personal relationship with an older man not involved with coaching or the team. (Not Jerry Sandusky). This guy was married but in a relationship with Vic Jr while he was in college. When he tried to cut it off Vic lost it and went missing for days holed up in a motel just outside of Pittsburgh. A PSU coach concerned by this tired to  bring him back because they were worried for his overall safety. 
Vic Sr was notified that it might be best for Vic Jr to stay away from the football program until he got some help. This was a problem the coaches couldn't and shouldn't deal with. The coaching staff tried to get help for him and he refused the help
The Surma family put the problem on Joe and never forgave him. Joe then washed his hands if the situation as he should have. If Vic Jr. would not accept the help he was offered there was nothing else that Joe or the coaching staff could or should do. This was a Surma family problem.
Vic the father and his brother John dramatically changed their opinion of Joe after Vic the son attended PSU and developed the problems that led to his tragic death. There is therefore no question that John Surma should have excluded himself from any Board of Trustee's decision concerning Joe in Nov of 2011. John Surma and his family were clearly biased against Joe prior to the board meeting that turned their personal family tragedy into a disaster for Joe Paterno and Penn State.

CNN came close to investigating this situation in Feb of 2013 when a contributor wrote an assignment on "The Framing of Joe Paterno" that used the information we published on this website. Additional bloggers on the Penn State situation have picked up this information and offered it online. It is now time for qualified journalists to investigate this information and make it known.

The Penn State Board of Trustees made a rash and damaging decision based on a Presentment; a document designed to secure indictments on testimony and evidence untested by cross-examination, exculpatory evidence, or questioned by any defense. In the face of a media tsunami of unfavorable publicity, John Surma coerced the Trustees into a surrender to trial by media. For all intents and purposes their decisions said: Penn State believes that Coach Joe Paterno and President Graham Spanier are guilty of malfeasance in office although they were not charged with any crime or misdeed. In fact the Attorney General applauded Coach Paterno's cooperation. The Board's imprudent decision also said; we believe that Athletic Director Tim Curley and Vice President Gary Schultz are guilty of the charges in the Presentment prior to any defense at trial.

All the Board needed to do to maintain a defensible position for Penn State was to have said; we are very concerned about the charges in the Presentment and we will do everything we can to assist the Attorney General in arriving at the truth after gathering all of the facts. We believe in the legal process and trust that everyone connected to Penn State will cooperate with investigators. These charges are extremely serious but we must allow the legal process to run it's course. Coach Paterno, President Spanier, AD Tim Curley, and VP Gary Schultz are like all Americans, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Instead the Board's precipitous decisions put Penn State in the untenable position of accepting guilt for something that had not been adjudicated. This led to massive cash settlements and costs associated with the NCAA sanctions that came as a result of that decision. Nothing was to be gained from this rush to accept guilt. The media storm raged on and continues to ebb and flow as the trials of Spanier, Curley and Schultz approach.

SMSS does not have the resources of CNN or the established news media in Pennsylvania. Now that Al Clemens has resigned from the Board of Traitors and has expressed his regret for going along with John Surma and Gov Corbett in Nov 2011 and PSU alumnus and Crisis Management expert Stephen Fink has issued his professional opinion on the damage done to PSU by the Corbett/Surma railroad that led to Joe's dismissal by telephone Nov 2011; it's time for a professional news agency to allocate some resources to this story and publish what they learn of this travesty in the national media.

We express our sympathy to the Surma family on the death of young Vic Surma. His premature passing is a terrible tragedy. But young Vic's problems appear to have had much to do with the Surma's dramatic change of opinion of Joe Paterno. John Surma's tragic biased and misguided leadership led to the firing of Joe and Graham Spanier and the resulting damage to Penn State. The people of State College and Alumni of Penn State deserve to know the truth. John Surma should have never been allowed to chair the Board or participate when they considered the fate of Joe Paterno.

It is time for the current Penn State Board of Trustee's to join Al Clemens and repudiate that misguided and biased decision. Restore the legacy of Joe Paterno and the reputation of Penn State. Censure the decision made in haste under the biased control of John Surma. It's never too late to do the right thing.


  1. As an objective observer, it appeared to me that there was a terrible lynch mob atmosphere created by the Board that produced an unfair rush to judgement. As a minimum, they should have waited until after a trial to make sure all parties had their day in court since we should all be considered innocent until proven guilty. Now that these and other facts have been exposed, I think society should recognize the rush to judgement and restore the legacy of Joe Paterno and the reputation of Penn State.

  2. As an objective observer, it appeared to me that there was a terrible lynch mob atmosphere created by the Board that produced an unfair rush to judgement. As a minimum, they should have waited until after a trial to make sure all parties had their day in court since we should all be considered innocent until proven guilty. Now that these and other facts have been exposed, I think society should recognize the rush to judgement and restore the legacy of Joe Paterno and the reputation of Penn State.

  3. Another amazing finding that shows there were numerous conflicts of interest, ignorance, and biased by a week, self serving BOT. SAD

  4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    1. Thank you so much for sharing that great insight Barbara

    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    3. Very good to hear from you Barb. You make some very good points. Don't be a stranger.

  5. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    1. Ray/Barry, Why were the comments from Barbara Doran removed? Too much heat, or too much truth. I found them to be extremely thoughtful and well written. Will try not to read too much into it without more info(what a concept,eh?)

    2. Barb got heat from Steve Dunham - Penn State's new in house counsel - he threatened her with removal for speaking her mind. Dunham is in lockstep with Corbett Freeh and the BoT

  6. A tragic loss of life from drug addiction exploited by truthers for more conspiracy theories.. why doesn't that shock me. My thoughts go out to the family and friends of Victor Surma during this difficult time.

    1. Brian,
      The only conspiracy theory is the one you believe in -- that PSU knowingly covered up for a pedophile to avoid bad publicity.

      Here at we do not subscribe to that conspiracy theory, which is quite similar to the allegations that were levied against Richard Jewell and Duke Lax.

      There is ample evidence that shows The Second Mile knowingly concealed the fact that Sandusky was abusing children.

      There are also extremely reliable sources who confirm that John Surma began his campaign to remove Paterno as PSU FB coach when he was named to the BOT in 2007.

      There are no conspiracy theories involved with what is written in this blogpost.

    2. you are absolutely a despicable human being Ray, let the kid rest in peace.

    3. Brian,
      There is no disrespect here, except from your feigned indignation. We all know you're in the child abuse enablers camp.

      You're part of the group that wants to sweep this whole scandal under the rug and roll out the welcome mat for pedophiles to live in Pennsylvania and have access to the kids.

      Despicable? Get a mirror, Brian.

    4. You just have to shake your head at Brian Cuban's self-righteous indignation when facts are revealed that need to be explored. In the end that is why I went ahead and posted this information. I want answers - not the cover-up that Brian Cuban desires to continue. There is absolutely no question that Surma and Corbett had a complete conflict of interest - Corbett who convened the grand jury that accused PSU administrators and then became the Gov who sat on the BOT and appointed a third of the members - and Surma who wanted Paterno gone from 2006. That's not a conspiracy theory Brian - those are facts. They should have never been allowed to sit in on any discussion of Paterno by the BOT. All the BOT had to do was say: Let the legal system run it's course and when that is done we will decide what if an liability PSU deserves. There it is. Simple, easy to understand - and RIGHT.

    5. You may say this is despicable but it's an important part of the story: Motive. There are those inside the Board of Trustees that, dispite what you been told that Joe Paterno ran Penn State, hated him and his 'influence' he had on, not only with the football program, but with the direction the University. You have Surma (CEO of US Steel), Frazier (CEO of Merck) , Peetz (President of BNY Mellon) along with others that didn't like someone outside their circle questioning their decisions and they made. Joe, thru his years of service and his notoriety, was able to do that. I guarantee you that they wanted to get rid of him and that Surma could not wait to get on TV and 'fire his ass'. You got your story that you liked. Go ahead and believe it.

  7. Kudos to the website operators for allowing Mr. Cuban to offer his opinion even though it is contrary to your own. The powers-that-be at Penn State should do the same.

    Also, great job Barb, your comments were spot on. If we cannot ask hard questions at a university, where can we ask them?

  8. Thank you for sharing this information. It is as much a testament to what happened in November of 2011 as anything I've seen. The fact that Gov. Corbett disliked Joe Paterno for not endorsing his candidacy for governor is also important here. It allowed the climate that led to the firing, which was more of a lynching than anything. They tried to stifle Joe's ability to explain things as we now know them, they wanted to control the message at all costs. Something to this day they continue to attempt. Thanks Barb Doran and the other newly elected alumni members for trying to break through the choke hold the executive committee tries to enforce.

  9. Dear Folks,
    I am at a loss to understand how you can connect a drug death, if it was one, to a young man failing to do well at school, football, and life away from home over a decade later. Somehow, it is a real leap of faith to argue that he was a homosexual, and that inclination had something to do with his death, or it is a reflection of his mom and dad’s attitude toward him, the lack of appropriate reporting or documentation bothers me, in addition,
    I am at a further loss with these other leaps of faith concerning Surma’s motivation, pick either brother, and how it plays out some years later and how this has anything to do with the dismissal of the coach. This difficulty has reached a new low when these kinds of links are given any credence at all, I doubt very much if anybody here has any real data on this shameful episode.

    1. William,
      The police reports posted on this site are real. What other documentation would you like to see in that regard to confirm his drug problem.

      The article did not make any statements regarding his sexuality.

      We have posted numerous e-mails from Victor Surma Sr (circa 2005-2007) that attacked Joe Paterno and blamed Joe for his son's "failures." We also know that Victor Surma Sr. held a grudge against Paterno for not giving his son a full ride to PSU.

      It is a fact that John Surma began his campaign to oust Joe Paterno in 2007 - as soon as he became a member of the PSU BOT.

      The New York Times reported that Governor Corbett worked the phones with John Surma in advance of Paterno's termination.

      We also know it was Governor Corbett who was the lone person to speak up when Surma informed the Board that Paterno would be terminated. Corbett's statement to the BOT was: "remember that little boy in the shower."

    2. It would really benefit William to read the entire post including all of the evidence contained in The SURMA VENDETTA and THE SURMA VENDETTA Part 2 - prior to making his assertions that he cannot understand the connection.

    3. When over a half dozen former lettermen and persons close to the situation tell us the Surma brothers antipathy toward Joe became known as young Vic's problems became evident we listened. When they provided the message board posts where Vic's father blamed Joe for 'destroying the self-esteem and confidence of young men' we ask you William - who do you think he was referencing?
      Our QUESTIONS concerning the connection are expressed as questions. Our main point is this: Since it is known that John Surma had expressed serious antipathy toward Joe - why didn't he recuse himself from the deliberations instead of chairing the meeting and saying exactly the words posted above. "We're not going to drink the Kool-Aid," snapped John P. Surma, then the board's vice chairman and the chief executive officer of United States Steel Corp. "This is what we need to do."
      Surma then asked whether any trustee objected to the firing of coach Joe Paterno.

      We think that what happened with young Vic created the antipathy 1) because we have been told that and 2) because the antipathy was expressed soon after his brother posted on those message boards. But in the end the reason for the antipathy isn't as important as the fact it existed. Garban excused himself from chairing the meeting because he once played football under Joe but Surma did not excuse himself because he had it in for Joe. If you think that was what a Trustee should have done you are welcome to that opinion. We seriously disagree. .

  10. I agree with your major points, particularly that John Surma had a conflict of interest when it came to considering whether to fire Paterno over the Sandusky scandal.

    However, some of the conclusions remind me of Freeh's method of using speculation and unnamed sources. For example, saying that Victor's arrest in 2012 "confirm information that Vic had developed a drug problem during his Penn State career." Logically, it confirms nothing about his Penn State career years before. He might have developed a drug problem after college.

    It also seems speculative, and really off-topic, whether the "Surma family had gone to considerable lengths to keep his death quiet." Maybe his body wasn't immediately identified, something not unusual in drug overdose cases.

    I think you dilute the message when you speculate about irrelevant topics.

    1. Tim,
      The Surma Vendetta, Part 2, covered Vic Jr's drug problem while at PSU. Seven sources confirmed it. Feel free to click on the link and read if for yourself.

      Also, I received an unconfirmed report of Vic Jr's death in late January, so it was not a case of a time lag in identifying the body.

      Obviously, we don't publish every fact we know when putting together a blog post.

      We appreciate the questions/comments and are happy to answer and provide details when we can.

    2. In the summer of 2012 when I was sent copies of the message board posts by Victor J Surma from PSU football lettermen, I was told about failed drug tests and a disappearance that resulted in his leaving the team after coaches sought to get help for him. When we get that from independent sources we know were part of the team we listen. We then found the two arrest records for DUI controlled substance that "confirmed" a drug problem. When we learn his death was from a heroin overdose in what several independent sources say was well known in the community that confirmed a serious drug problem.

      What all of this leads to is a conflict of interest - We know for a certainty that John Surma chaired the meeting when Joe was fired. We know for a certainty what he said. We have one source who was in the middle of the situation in a key position to know that John Surma told him on multiple occasions that he wanted Paterno fired for years prior to the Nov 9 meeting. This key source told us he advised Surma that was a terrible idea and that Surma told him he didn't care. We know from the conduct of the meeting that Surma silenced objections and did not invite any debate. 'THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO were his exact words prior to saying "No objection?" and it was done.
      So does it matter why Surma changed his mind about Joe so dramatically between 2004 and 2007? Not really - the fact that he wanted Joe gone and engineered his demise the way he did is a clear undeniable Conflict of Interest. He did not care about the repercussions to PSU or Joe. JOHN SURMA should not even have participated in that decision given his closed minded antipathy. He didn't care about what was best for Penn State.and that was his responsibility. We know for certain that Surma and Corbett worked on how to fire Surma and Spanier days prior to the Nov 9 2011 meeting and Corbett's conflict of interest was even worse. This violated the ability of the Board of Trustees to discuss and debate the response to the Presentment of Nov 5, 2011. Corbett and Surma did not want discussion or debate and they called a late night "emergency meeting" to handle a "crisis". There was no crisis - there was only a Presentment - and you should know what a presentment is - a best case for indictment built on "evidence" and testimony never subjected to cross-examination, exculpatory evidence or any input from a defense.

  11. You people are sick. Do you think your website had anything to do with his downhill slide? You should be ashamed of yourself for stalking his mother's facebook and bringing this up again. Can you imagine the pain his mother, and sister and rest of the family are in? I wont mention his father or uncle since you hate them so much, but he boy did have other family members. Get a life and leave this family alone to grieve the loss of their son.

    1. Billo,
      Answers to your questions.
      1. NO, we don't think this website had anything to do at all with Vic Jr's downhill slide, which according to our sources started in 2005 - seven years before the establishment of this blog.
      2. NO, we are not ashamed of using whatever sources available to verify the rumor of Vic Jr's death -- which had been floating around since Jan 2014.
      3. YES, we can imagine the pain of the family and have said so. Quote:

      "We express our sympathy to the Surma family on the death of young Vic Surma. His premature passing is a terrible tragedy."

    2. It's really sad to hear of Vic's passing at such a young age, it shows just how bad drug addiction can be. I just wonder if knowing the damage his dad and uncle helped cause to PSU as a result of his own problems made his drug problem even worse, which could have lead to the multiple arrests in 2012.

      I always thought of Vic as a key figure in this whole debacle as Vic Sr. and Vic Jr. had direct connections to Paterno, Sandusky, and McQueary. They both played for Paterno. When Vic Sr. was a player at PSU around 1970 he lived for a semester in Sandusky's now infamous basement. Meanwhile, Vic Jr. was a wide receiver on the football team and McQueary was his position coach for the 2004 and 2005 season. I wouldn't think it would be too much of a stretch if McQueary made mention to his players about seeing Sandusky in a shower with a boy, especially to a player who's dad knew Sandusky well enough that he lived at Sandusky's house for a short time.

      While it seems knowledge of McQueary seeing Sandusky in the shower wasn't as much of a secret that it is made out to be, it's very possible the Surma family knew about this for a long time. Unfortunately, it seems highly unlikely there would be any to prove John Surma knew about the McQueary incident well before it every came to Corbett's attention.

  12. I think bringing his sexual orientation into it was uncalled for.

    His behavior after ending a relationship, drugs, is what's important. What difference does it make if it was a man or woman?

    Bringing sexuality into it, and claiming his family couldn't handle it, is just vilifying them IMO.

    1. Sexual orientation is of no consequence to me as author of these posts. The problem came from his father and uncle according to teammates. I simply don't care what anyone's sexual orientation may be but it is beyond question that there are many - particularly of John and Vic Sr's generation who cannot handle non-heterosexuals. I make no value judgments on the matter and as such see nothing negative in discussing what we know is a serious issue for some. Had John or Vic Surma Sr. decided to want Joe gone because of an issue involving a heterosexual relationship I doubt you care. As you say "what difference does it make if it were a man or a woman?" The answer is no difference at all to me but whole lot of difference to his father and uncle according to our sources and Vic's own words in posts on the Penn State player's forum. Vic was disgusted by homosexuals and that contributed to his antipathy for Joe as ridiculous at that seems.